Nobody in their right mind would, or should, want to subject another human being to deliberate and brutal torture for the sheer perverted pleasure of watching them suffer, anywhere, ever.
That said it is always easy years later to look back and criticize the methods a previous administration utilized, in an undeniably successful effort to prevent another 9/11 type assault on American soil, for purely partisan political purposes as clearly evidenced in this House Judiciary Committee hearing featuring the ill prepared, misinformed and confused veteran Democrat hack Attorney General Eric Holder and Republican Congressmen Dan Lungren and Louie Gohmert.
There was a little noticed bombshell in Washington’s waterboarding melodrama last week. And it wasn’t Nancy Pelosi’s implosion in a Capitol Hill press room, where she yet again tried to explain her inexplicable failure to protest the CIA’s “torturing” of detainees. No, this one detonated in the hearing room of the House Judiciary Committee. There, Attorney General Eric Holder inadvertently destroyed the warped basis for his claim that waterboarding, as administered by the CIA, amounted to torture.
As originally reported by Connie Hair of Human Events, Holder’s undoing was the result of deft questioning by two committee Republicans: Dan Lungren, California’s former state attorney general, and Louie Gohmert, the former chief judge of a Texas appeals court. The two congressmen highlighted a fatal flaw in Holder’s theory. Moreover, they demonstrated that — despite having accused the CIA and the Bush administration of war crimes by cavalierly branding waterboarding as “torture” — the attorney general has still not acquainted himself with the legal elements of a torture offense, particularly the required mental state. This is remarkable, given that Holder’s own department explained these elements less than a month ago in a federal appeals court brief.
Rep. Lungren pointed out that if the attorney general truly believes “waterboarding is torture,” he must also think we torture our own Navy SEALs and other special-operations personnel when we waterboard them as part of their training. “No . . . not in the legal sense,” countered Holder. You see, said he, it’s “a fundamentally different thing,” because we’re doing something for training purposes to try to equip them with the tools to, perhaps, resist torture techniques that might be used on them. There is not the intent to do that which is defined as torture — which is to inflict serious bodily or mental harm. It’s for training. It’s different.
But it’s not different because “it’s for training.” Look at the torture statute (Sections 2340 and 2340A of the federal penal code) and try to find a “training” exception. There isn’t one. What removes an act from the ambit of torture (besides lack of severe pain) is intent. Lungren pressed this point, and Holder admitted that the training was “not torture in the legal sense because we’re not doing it with the intention of harming these people physically or mentally.” Intent, he acknowledged, was the key question.
[please be sure to read this entire article which is linked above, it's a good one!]
Some problems the Democrats, and specifically Nancy Pelosi, have had in trying to go down this Bush tortured people road are records revealing they were in fact up to speed and generally on board with the Bush administration and the way they were going about the business of keeping this nation safe from terrorist attacks and the lack of legitimate documentation where any objections to the methods being used were made.
Most of us possess that sense of morality within us which always manages to balance the ends justifying the means. This is what helps us take into account the potential benefits from the acts of coercive interrogation techniques while still maintaining methods to ensure people are not seriously injured or killed in the process. That doesn’t mean it will always be pretty.
The very left wing New York Democratic Senator Charles Schumer, during a 2004 hearing on the subject of torture, had this to say before this issue became what the liberals thought would be a golden political opportunity,
“There are times when we all get into high dudgeon” on this matter, Schumer said, but that we “ought to be reasonable about this. I think there are probably very few people in this [Congressional hearing] room or in America who would say that torture should never, ever be used, particularly if thousands of lives are at stake. Take the hypothetical: if we knew that there was a nuclear bomb hidden in an American city and we believe that some kind of torture, fairly severe maybe, would give us a chance of finding that bomb before it went off, my guess is most Americans and most Senators, maybe all, would say do what you have to do. So it’s easy to sit back in the armchair and say that torture can never be used. But when you’re in the fox hole, it’s a very different deal. [End of audio but he continued on] And I respect, I think we all respect the fact that the President’s in the fox-hole every day. So he can hardly be blamed for asking you, or his White House counsel or the Department of Defense, to figure out when it comes to torture, what the law allows and when the law allows it, and what there is permission to do.
Senator Schumer noted, “We certainly don’t want torture to be used willy-nilly… But we also don’t want the situation like I mentioned in Chicago to preclude it.”
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Unless one has been living rather uncomfortably in a cave up in the Tora Bora mountains of Afghanistan they would be aware that the subject of “detainee abuse photographs” has been in the news lately. The way to the left of Hugo Chavez ACLU has requested via a lawsuit that the government release these photos to show just how awful the Bush gang was when it came to the treatment of men who would not hesitate to cut the head off an American child in front of his parents because of their religious zealousness and hatred for everything western civilizations represent including Christianity.
Bush resisted releasing the photos fearing another backlash against our troops in the field but Obama proclaimed it was time to do so and get the ugliness out into the open. Of course his prime motivation was really to provide more fodder for hammering on Bush, Cheney et al and the Republicans in general with the hope of picking up additional seats in an already heavily Democrat infested Congress come 2010. While some may contend Obama was taking a stand on morality I will counter that any man who advocates medical attention be withheld to a newborn who survives an abortion resulting in that tiny baby’s horrible lonely death wouldn’t know morality if it jumped in his lap and called him messiah.
After saying he would release the photos proving the Bush administration was involved in the brutal torture of poor helpless good citizens of the world, Obama has suddenly retracted his earlier promise to do so leaving the ACLU and the rest of the crosseyed moonbats in the lurch and threatening to post their disappointment all over the huffy post and daily kos websites.
Now many folks have seen at least some of the pictures of what was going on at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq and there is little doubt some inappropriate behavior, based on the context of what most of us are accustomed to seeing during our day to day perspective of life in suburban America, very well could have taken place.
I have posted links to some of these pictures rather than the actual photos, in deference to the folks who may wish to have the choice of viewing them or not, to show some context between some rough and tumble behavior and serious and in many cases unspeakable true torture and brutal murder of human beings by some of the very same people we may have in custody to this day.
There are literally hundreds of these “detainee abuse photos” posted on the internet and I have looked at every one I could find. Personally I don’t have an issue with any of them since I rarely get wigged out over anything due to prior life experiences.
This is just a small sampling of the photos available to anyone who chooses to go look for them and no I didn’t hold anything back, I just picked several at random.
Photo number 1 Photo number 2 Photo number 3 Photo number 4 Photo number 5 Photo number 6 Photo number 7 Photo number 8 Photo number 9 Photo number 10 Photo number 11 Photo number 12 Photo number 13 Photo number 14 Photo number 15 Photo number 16 Photo number 17 Photo number 18 Photo number 19
Of course it’s really difficult to tell exactly what had transpired prior to these pictures being taken nor do we know the history of the “detainees” depicted in them but we do know that among many other disgusting acts they are well known for throwing urine and feces on and at our military personnel on a daily basis.
Now I’m fully aware of all the left wingers out there, suddenly struck with a lightening bolt loaded with moral purity, who proclaim America should never sink to the level of torture and abuse other countries mete out on a daily basis even to their own citizens. It doesn’t matter to these left wingers that we had people trying to protect this country from terrorist attacks when they were utilizing these rough and unpleasant but non life threatening and legal techniques in the process of extracting useful information from some of the most hard core people walking the planet. By the way most if not all of these aggressive techniques are performed on our own military members during training. This training is given to our men because other countries use true torture methods freely and we want our soldiers to be able to fight their way through them as best as possible if they are ever captured.
For those who looked at the pictures of the “detainee abuse” and thought they were awful I ask you to take a look at what Saddam Hussein’s regime did to their own people, people who are now free of that madman thanks to the skill, dedication and heavy sacrifices of the men and women of our U.S. military.
This particular video showing true torture, while painful to watch, is a relatively mild one compared to what follows.
I think it is important that we, as Americans and people who, for the most part with an exception for the gang bangers, murderers and thugs walking amongst us, truly care about the sanctity of life and the well being of our fellow human beings, make the clear distinction between very aggressive interrogation techniques and absolute evil.
These videos are not so mild and in fact come with a very very strong warning.
From the defenddemocracy.org website,
These are the kind of purely evil people we are dealing with folks and I would love to see the whole CodePink/MoveOn.org crowd book a long four day weekend with them…if you get my drift.
They beat their own fellow citizens mercilessly, tie their hands behind their backs and throw them off the roofs of three story buildings, cut their tongues off with razor blades, break their arms with large pieces of lumber, chop their fingers and hands off with machetes and behead them with dull knives and swords.
Yet we demand our young men and women in the military and intelligence agencies go among these vicious animals and act like little angels.
Let’s see, waterboard the guy behind the 9/11 attacks, that killed 3,000 Americans, under strict guidelines in an effort to extract useful information or tie some poor bastard’s hands behind his back and throw him off the roof of a building just for fun. I wonder which scenario should be considered torture?
In closing I suggest only the very toughest of the tough out there sit through this video. It ranks right up there with some of the most gruesome stuff I have ever seen but again it shows just what kind of foul and pernicious entity our military and our country are facing in this day and age.
In closing I cannot caution people enough about this video, it is brutal. Please do NOT watch this unless you feel you can deal with the most depraved and evil actions one human being can perform on another. Keep in mind, if you choose to view this video, these are the types of people I have been addressing throughout this posting. Boy Scouts they most certainly are not.